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Father to daughter?

Thread starter #1

andrew

Caretaker
Staff member
Has anyone here bred the father back to a daughter?   How did it turn out?   That is closer breeding than I am comfortable with, but I wanted to learn from the experiences for those that have actually done this.
Thanks!
 
andrew said:
Has anyone here bred the father back to a daughter?   How did it turn out?   That is closer breeding than I am comfortable with, but I wanted to learn from the experiences for those that have actually done this.
Thanks!
I have done that and even much closer, most that is familiar with my bloodline know i seldom if ever out-cross.I breed litter mates, mother to son, father to daughter..Understand the main reason many do not breed anywhere near as close as i have done for 40 or 50 years, is they obviously know they have bad genetics lurking in their hounds genetics, believe this..IF YOU DO NOT HAVE BAD YOU CAN'T GET BAD!! Inbreeding is the ONLY way to purify a bloodline and to find out what is really lurking in that bloodline and you need to bring the bad to surface to be culled off, you have to intense inbreed and viciously cull any offspring that does not fit your ideal of the type rabbit dog you prefer.
 
andrew said:
Has anyone here bred the father back to a daughter?   How did it turn out?   That is closer breeding than I am comfortable with, but I wanted to learn from the experiences for those that have actually done this.
Thanks!
Anyone that views this article, if you are not scared or if you want to honestly see what is lurking in your bloodline, or other bloodlines, take litter mates and breed them together and see what is produced in the litter, may surprise you, and no good comes from it and than it might be the magic you have been searching for!!The "ONLY" way to set genetics, is to breed litter mates!
 
The "ONLY" way to set genetics is by breeding litter mates..Now for those that disbelieve this search on the PC all you wish and just maybe you will find i am right? Sooner or later some of you young beaglers will learn to listen to some of us OLD guys, it just might help in your breeding program and save you a few bucks, and there are a few older guys that can learn new tricks, if they so desire, but for the most part, i have found out older beaglers are deaf to new ideas, but ready to listen to gossip and third party info, (true or false) as long as it coincides with their way of thinking!!!

Below may need to go into a health section..move if you so desire, but it is good info..
Man was created from dust and God breathed breath into it and man was formed..Now all earth has either Acidic or Alkaline PH, and farmers produce crops from testing to see what their crops will produce from the PH in their fields and they add what they need..Our bodies has PH and cancer can not live in an Alkaline PH, it must have an Acidic PH to survive, our bodies has both Acidic and Alkaline PH but we can influence the Alkaline PH by putting a couple table spoons of baking soda in a gallon of distilled water and storing it in the frig and drink it during the day.If i ever talk about health and herbs check it out, i know what i am taking about, baking soda is not an herb, but it is like lime to soil, it lessens the acidic PH..
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maokusa

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Thing I have against inbreeding is we are not breeding a new breed of dog. Beagles have been around for thousands of years. I’m sure plenty of inbreeding and line breeding was done to set them as beagle breed we all know and enjoy today. In my opinion as long as we are breeding Beagles to Beagles we are not doing a total outcrossing. Lots of defects are caused by inbreeding. Inbreeding for the sake of inbreeding is a bad practice in my opinion. The best performance animals I have witnessed were produced by breeding two animals that weren’t closely related it gives them more vigor and they are just healthier in general.
 
You want to see vigor, my bloodlines has more than their share, you want to see healthy dogs mine has that also./. The main reason for inbreeding is to set genetics, nothing more nothing less, and each time you out-cross you lower the possibility to setting genetics..
 
Thread starter #7

andrew

Caretaker
Staff member
Rebel, I have to confess that I am uneasy too.  I used to breed German Shepherds.  Hip dysplasia was a serious problem.  I got rid of it in my kennel by importing my breeding stock from Germany.  
Now I do have a  question.  With inbreeding in theory you could cull hard and eventually get rid of a defect like hip dysphasia.  But what happens when all pups produced from your inbreeding has hip dysplasia at age 1 year.?  what do you have left for breeding stock?  None of them would qualify.  
Back in that time, I did not know this theory of inbreeding to eliminate defects.  But I think it would have taken years and a lot of expense.  Importing two top quality GS with normal hips seemed like a smart thing to do at the time.  Yes, I paid top dollar for them,but never had hip problems again to the day I sold out.
 
Haven't done a father/daughter cross yet. Plan on doing Mother/son cross soon I hope.    

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/beagle/breeding.result?father=2664223&mother=2664227





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andrew said:
Rebel, I have to confess that I am uneasy too.  I used to breed German Shepherds.  Hip dysplasia was a serious problem.  I got rid of it in my kennel by importing my breeding stock from Germany.  
Now I do have a  question.  With inbreeding in theory you could cull hard and eventually get rid of a defect like hip dysphasia.  But what happens when all pups produced from your inbreeding has hip dysplasia at age 1 year.?  what do you have left for breeding stock?  None of them would qualify.  
Back in that time, I did not know this theory of inbreeding to eliminate defects.  But I think it would have taken years and a lot of expense.  Importing two top quality GS with normal hips seemed like a smart thing to do at the time.  Yes, I paid top dollar for them,but never had hip problems again to the day I sold out.
So far never had a beagle with[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] hip dysplasia..I was into other breeds of dogs prior to beagles, mainly show dogs such as Samoyeds, Keeshounds and Malamutes, although these breeds were subject to having hip dysplasia, it was never found to be in my kennel at the time. I closed my show dog kennel in the 60's and in the early 70's chose to have beagles and never looked back from that point about other breeds of dogs.[/font]
 
andrew said:
Rebel, I have to confess that I am uneasy too.  I used to breed German Shepherds.  Hip dysplasia was a serious problem.  I got rid of it in my kennel by importing my breeding stock from Germany.  
Now I do have a  question.  With inbreeding in theory you could cull hard and eventually get rid of a defect like hip dysphasia.  But what happens when all pups produced from your inbreeding has hip dysplasia at age 1 year.?  what do you have left for breeding stock?  None of them would qualify.  
Back in that time, I did not know this theory of inbreeding to eliminate defects.  But I think it would have taken years and a lot of expense.  Importing two top quality GS with normal hips seemed like a smart thing to do at the time.  Yes, I paid top dollar for them,but never had hip problems again to the day I sold out.
OK..so you had genetics in your kennel that brought forth [font=arial, sans-serif]Hip Dysplasia meaning it was coming from both parents..The first time it showed up, i would have had all litter mates checked for it along with the parents, if all show the signs i would have made others some free gifts..If only one or more showed no sign i would keep them, and have all my breeding stock checked for the sign, and culling those that showed signs.It is sometims a guessing game, and yes breeding and culling is very expensive and time consuming, but you start with a dream and work towards making that dream reality, set aside finances, time,and 10 to 20 years in the process, old Farts like us do not have the time and those that set the time and finances aside to tackle such a chore may wind up losing big time.I think you may have made the best choice going overseas to get proven stock with a guarantee what you purchased would not produce [size=small][font=arial, sans-serif]hip dysplasia.When i was breeding show dogs conformation seem to come fairly easy and i was fairly successful in the show ring..but now rabbit dogs seem to take a whole different direction and so many variables to challenge your intelligents on achieving goals you set for the type rabbit dog that will please you as an individual. Basically i am fairly proud of what i have achieved, but the main thing that discuses me is the vast number of beaglers that have no integrity!!
Make that breeding and STOP guessing if it is right or wrong, and if it turns out wrong blame it all on me, but if you do not make the breeding you will for ever wonder about it, and save me a male that has the conformation to be fast and 13" or less at maturity..deal??
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andrew said:
Has anyone here bred the father back to a daughter?   How did it turn out?   That is closer breeding than I am comfortable with, but I wanted to learn from the experiences for those that have actually done this.
Thanks!
Is both the male and female your best hounds in your kennel and do they exhibit the traits you prefer?
 
I've done similar breedings as Rebel just not on beagles yet. I am gathering dogs to do the very same type of breeding though. There is an importance to keeping lines as pure as possible. We have lost a lot of good traits in dogs, because of the fear of inbreeding. I can show better than I can tell you. It works and with a higher success rate than breeding FC to FC, or good dog to good dog, and so forth. What I have seen out of a lot of outcrossing is animals that can't reproduce likeness.
 
Thread starter #13

andrew

Caretaker
Staff member
Good points. I read about a breeder once who inbred two different lines of beagles always getting closer to what he wanted in each of the two groups. I understand that at some point he bred a male from one group to a female of the other group. In a sense, that was his out-cross. I’ve searched for that several times and never found it. I wonder if it was in John Parks book on breeding a better beagle? How do you think that approach would work out?
In general, I believe inbreeding is not so good. Is it always going to be bad? I don’t have answers, but let’s mention about the Amish who are inbred within their members, and some genetic problems have shown up. If it happens in human genetics, could it happen in the Beagle?